Posted by Aslan on April 05, 2001 at 02:06:47:
In Reply to: Re: symbolism, open heart, free will. posted by Ezekiel 25:17 on April 05, 2001 at 00:56:50:
Okay, I quoted your points, here are my replies:
(The day I figure out this message board will be the same day my computer crashes. I'm sure of it.)
What I personally believe is that it's not about the 'religion'. It's about a relationship. Yes, fellowship is important according to the Bible. (Acts 2:42,1 Cor. 10:20, 2 Cor.6:14, Gal.6:9, etc.) But it doesn't mean that God removes His love if we don't feel comfortable in a church setting, with people we don't know. My best friend is a Christian. We get together/chat often. When we do the talk always turns toward God. We even pray together sometimes. I can't remember the verse right now, but I can paraphrase "When 2 or more come together in my name, they are as a church". (OK, bad paraphrasing, I know..I'll look for the actual
quote. It is along those lines though. I'm quite certain.)
I've had proof of that. It's personal, so I won't get into it. But, much like the missing 10 dollar bill, I saw it, and I know it exists. Just because I can't produce it for you doesn't make the existence any less so in my mind.
Nah, I think this is where we are to realize He's much bigger than us. You're the end all be all, says the creation to the Creator. As a curious creation, I would like to know all I can about this Father. This Master. When I find out the lengths His love goes, well, that makes me all the more intrigued. However, the others who have no curiousity, due to conclusions they have already reached...okay. I respect that.
No, love cannot be dictated Ezek. Like trust, I feel it has to be earned. The commandment 'Honor thy Father and thy Mother' I feel went with the unspoken 'Honor thy children, for I gifted you with them'.
I really wish I could type something here to help you reconcile your past, but I can't. And I won't even try. You're too wise.
On that note, who should I thank for you? It's not everyday I can have such a civil discussion with someone who's beliefs are so radically different. Should I thank your parents?
God?
Or should I thank you?
Thank you Ezek.
It's free will to see it as God making himself known, or writing it off as something that can't be explained. It's your choice on how to compute info, just as it's your choice to disregard info.
Do you REALLY want Him too? What are you looking for? A burning bush? A cloud yelling at you? What exactly would a 'God appearance' be in your mind?
Now Ezek, you're just being argumentative here:)
Honestly, I think depressed people, who can no longer justify the way they feel to themselves, may find it within their strength to reach out for something/Someone else. Perhaps it's their 'breaking' point. I don't know. I couldn't even claim to. Just speculation.
As far as the other questions, I guess it's between God and them. If He is the God I believe He is, He'll make Himself known, in one way or another. I suppose that's for God and those you spoke of to work out.
Abraham,Moses,Samuel,Elijiah,Isiah,Mary,John the Baptist... I have NO idea what you're talking about here Ezek:) However, did God pick them, or did they pick HIM? They were all solemn worshippers from childhood. The Bible speaks of them receiving messages from God in their adult years. So it didn't happen overnight.
Actually Ezek, I read somewhere else here, where you played Devils Advocate to a non-believer. Your argument in FAVOR of God was one of the best I've ever read. I'm not kidding.
I agree. Some of the meanest people I've met went to church every week. Some of the nicest people I've met went to church as well. I've also met very kind athiests/wiccans/unitarians...etc.
But I've also met very rude people who were members of those groups. Just because you are a member of a structure, doesn't make you all good or all bad.
Aslan