Re: Can you prove god? (Proof enclosed)

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: : Heres my question - and its a simple one (or should be). Can someone show me proof of god that DOESN'T assume god exists in its proof? : The reason behind the belief in God is centred around 'faith'. 'Faith' is believing without any tangible proof. This gets back to a central point in my contention. If there is actual proof God exists, this would prove that there is no God as such proof would deny free-will. Given that the choices are 'believe in God' and go to heaven, or 'disbelieve in God' and go to hell, is that even a rational choice once it has been proven beyond doubt that God exists? Thus, if God created this universe and man with the concept of free-will, than proof is impossible. I digress and state, that it seems a tad unfair to punish humans for exercising their free-will in disbelieving in God. : These points are made in the assumption that God is non-interventionalist, and takes no credence whatsoever in those who have personally been touched by God. (requires more discussion of free-will which will be discussed in the fullness of time) : However, bearing all this in mind, I will attempt to do the impossible and prove categorically there is a God by sheer logic alone. : 1+1+1+1+1+A=10+1+1+1+1 : If we assume A = 9, then the equation is correct. Thus, believing A to be 9 renders the whole equation correct. However, isn't it more likely to conclude that if A does not equal 9, it is the entire equation which is placed in doubt? : Just one small element renders the large equation worthless if incorrect. Now apply this biblically. : So how can we prove that God really exists without assuming God actually exists? : Well, obviously we'll need to make some more assumptions. : Lets start with: : a) a cheese sandwich is better than nothing : b) nothing is better than ultimate fulfilment : c) thus: a cheese sandwich is better than ultimate fulfilment. : Now that we've established a cheese sandwich is better than ultimate fulfilment, we must ponder how a cheese sandwich was created. : Can man create a cheese sandwich by himself? : No, he requires dairy products and grain. : Can the process of evolution result in naturally occuring bread and cheese slices? : Obviously not. : a) We know that God acts as a pathway to 'ultimate fulfilment'. : b) By process of elimination, if its not the act of nature that has created this work of art known as a 'cheese sandwich', then surely it comes from another source. : c) Thus, we can assume that cheese sandwiches exist as a creation designed to prove the ultimate existence of God. : : Soo many examples and so forth take the stand: It cant possibly be "evolution" (for example) THEREFORE God exists. Thats crazy talk. I am a very rational person, and as far as i can see God is a fanciful dream that would be wonderful if it was true, but the only evidence i see is "It must be true". : Never underestimate the power of denial :) : If you don't believe me, I'll tell you I heard that line in a movie, thus 'It must be true'. : : Why? : Because.

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