Posted by Ezekiel 25:17 on April 26, 2001 at 00:38:45:
In Reply to: Re: Please! (long)(part 1) -- on seeing miracles posted by Fritz on April 19, 2001 at 13:01:02:
: Fritz to Ezekial --- and anyone else who cares -
: I read your various posts and I see you return frequently to this notion of a Western God or Christian God. What makes you think whitey has the lock on God.
: I don't care if whitey say all those folks went to hell for believing in their mumbo jumbo gods -- they surely believed in God and their lives benefitted from it.
My posts are dedicated to refuting the notion of a Christian God for one main reason. Not because I disbelieve the concept of other religions, but because it is in the context of the argument, wherefore I am debating the veracity of the bible and Christian dogma. If you want to argue the basis of God in another religion, by all means, go right ahead :)
: I think you need to junk the bible -- you analyze it too much -- and not always with the clearest of thinking if I may say...
As I've said previously, I never claimed to be a biblical scholar and there are numerous websites out there which trash the bible comprehensively. Its easy to find numerous inconsistencies within the bible and widely exaggerated stories, thus I choose not to bother. What I attempt to do is get to the crux of the main issue at hand, and argue logically (often without success), the point I attempt to prove. This is difficult due to the ability of Christian scholars to interpret biblical stories in any way they choose. I could state, Adam and Eve existed and their children Kane and Abel (both male), how did the human race come into being without incest? Perhaps God decided to create more disobedint beings. But such arguments, although reasonable, never convince biblical scholars.
: I was talking about James betraying Jesus -- obviously Judas betrays him too but you are absolutely right about the fact that Judas may not have been exersizing free will in his Jesus betrayal -- he plays a pivotal plot point in the story. But James -- he betrays Jesus just to save his own butt from the fire -- that proves his free will even after having lived with the Jesus for three years.
Again, we're taking the stance that the bible is actual truth as opposed to made up propoganda. I am unfamiliar with when James betrays Jesus, but how can the rest of us even comprehend faith, when 3 out of 13 of Jesus's disciples end up betraying him. For the Son of God, that is a pretty poor strike rate of 75% for his most fervent believers.
Again, I digress, and come back to my original point. Happiness for a limited time in this life, as opposed to eternal happiness in the afterlife. If you knew for certain God existed, only a fool, or a fictional character would choose to avoid suffering in this one. Besides, if Peter and James both betrayed Jesus, and we're assuming they got to heaven, many other people with a lot less blasphemous crimes than betraying the Son of God should be allowed in as well.
Is could possibly be construed as free-will, but when offered a choice between eternal life and eternal torment, is it really a choice?
Cheers,
Ezekiel